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  (#901)
Clouseau
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Videocard: MSI RX 480 Gamming
Processor: Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: ASUS Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill Trident (2x8) 3200
Soundcard:
PSU: Seasonic SSR-1200PD
Default 04-21-2017, 01:39 | posts: 1,592

Quote:
Maybe someone can help me.

I have moved my cpu back to auto and applied some + offsets on core and SOC. Everything is stable and the memory continues to run at 3200 16-16-16-34.

However.. while the cpu idles at 2.2ghz which is good, the only time I can get an automatic 3.9ghz clock is on a single core bench mark. Any multi thread bench mark or stress test the cpu only ramps up to 3.5ghz.

Any thoughts?
Just spit balling, appears the net voltage is being taken into account and thinks it can only pull off 3.5.

At 100% defaults, my cpu never idled at anything below 3.5. according to the software. Think software in general is still having issues with Ryzen.

Cannot wrap my head around the whole reasoning for the 20C temp offset; makes no sense. Have a feeling kids are going to end up with this cpu and will upgrade to the refreshed version if ram issues have been resolved. Looking forward to seeing new board offerings aside from these initial ones.

Where's Vega...cannot come soon enough
   
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Gigabytes
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Videocard: RX480 (Vega dreaming)
Processor: AMD Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill DDR4 2x8GB
Soundcard:
PSU: eVGA Supernova 650
Default 04-21-2017, 02:19 | posts: 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Just spit balling, appears the net voltage is being taken into account and thinks it can only pull off 3.5.
I was kind of thinking it was a voltage issue on the core also. I've incrementally moved the offset voltage to +0.100. When the single core bench is running at 3.9 ghz I now see 1.470-1.500 on the core which is a bit more then my manual voltage of 1.470 when I had it manually clocked to 3.95ghz. But soon as it moves to multi core bench it drops to 3.5ghz with a core voltage of around 1.270.

Edit: Found this over on kitguru and feel kind of stupid now.

AMD’s Ryzen 7 1700X is an 8C16T processor thanks to its support for Simultaneous Multi-Threading (SMT). Base clock speed is 3.4GHz with Precision Boost taking it as high as 3.8GHz under the correct loading conditions (typically two-or-fewer core loading scenarios). Throughout our testing, we saw the chip spend most of its time at its 3.5GHz all-core turbo level when used with a strong Noctua NH-D15 CPU cooler. Another part of AMD’s SenseMI technologies – XFR – takes the Ryzen 7 1700X single-core clock speed as high as 3.9GHz, provided sufficient power and thermal headroom is available.

Last edited by Gigabytes; 04-21-2017 at 02:41.
   
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Webhiker
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Videocard: EVGA GTX 1080 SC Gaming
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-PRO
Memory: 32 GB TridentZ DDR4-3200
Soundcard: Realtek® ALC1220
PSU: Zahlman ZM-1000HP
Default 04-21-2017, 12:44 | posts: 204 | Location: Aarhus, Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabytes View Post
I was kind of thinking it was a voltage issue on the core also. I've incrementally moved the offset voltage to +0.100. When the single core bench is running at 3.9 ghz I now see 1.470-1.500 on the core which is a bit more then my manual voltage of 1.470 when I had it manually clocked to 3.95ghz. But soon as it moves to multi core bench it drops to 3.5ghz with a core voltage of around 1.270.

Edit: Found this over on kitguru and feel kind of stupid now.

AMD’s Ryzen 7 1700X is an 8C16T processor thanks to its support for Simultaneous Multi-Threading (SMT). Base clock speed is 3.4GHz with Precision Boost taking it as high as 3.8GHz under the correct loading conditions (typically two-or-fewer core loading scenarios). Throughout our testing, we saw the chip spend most of its time at its 3.5GHz all-core turbo level when used with a strong Noctua NH-D15 CPU cooler. Another part of AMD’s SenseMI technologies – XFR – takes the Ryzen 7 1700X single-core clock speed as high as 3.9GHz, provided sufficient power and thermal headroom is available.
Which is why I run with a fixed multiplier ( 40.25 ) on my 1800X.
   
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Gigabytes
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Videocard: RX480 (Vega dreaming)
Processor: AMD Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill DDR4 2x8GB
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PSU: eVGA Supernova 650
Default 04-21-2017, 18:28 | posts: 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webhiker View Post
Which is why I run with a fixed multiplier ( 40.25 ) on my 1800X.
I can understand that. I have 3 OC profiles saved in BIOS, 4ghz@2933, 3.9ghz@3200 and auto@3200.

Since memory speed seems to be a "beat the platform into submission" case scenario I am going to revisit the 4ghz@3200 configuration again in the near future. I have also found that I am able to lower voltages to core, memory and SOC now that the platform seems to be "burned in" with memory finally running at 3200.

For the most part I am going to stick to auto because my platform is total overkill for my purposes but I love it
   
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Whiplashwang
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Videocard: GTX 1080 G1
Processor: AMD R5 1600X - NH-D15S
Mainboard: ROG Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Flare X 3200MHz CL14
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Z
PSU: Corsair TX850W
Default 04-21-2017, 19:36 | posts: 2,114 | Location: Earth

It looks like all X processors including the R5s show incorrect temperatures. My 1600x is reading the 20C higher than actual temperature.
   
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  (#906)
Kraust
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Videocard: RX 470
Processor: Ryzen R7 1700
Mainboard: Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7
Memory: DDR4-3200 @ 16-16-16-36
Soundcard: ayy lmao
PSU: CM Extreme 2 625W
Default 04-21-2017, 20:04 | posts: 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiplashwang View Post
It looks like all X processors including the R5s show incorrect temperatures. My 1600x is reading the 20C higher than actual temperature.
That is correct. I believe that Gigabyte has implemented an offset to this in their newest BIOSes
   
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  (#907)
Whiplashwang
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Videocard: GTX 1080 G1
Processor: AMD R5 1600X - NH-D15S
Mainboard: ROG Crosshair VI Hero
Memory: 16GB Flare X 3200MHz CL14
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Z
PSU: Corsair TX850W
Default 04-21-2017, 20:57 | posts: 2,114 | Location: Earth

Was able to OC my RAM to 3600MHz with CL16. Not bad.

Last edited by Whiplashwang; 04-21-2017 at 21:20.
   
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  (#908)
AsiJu
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Videocard: EVGA 980Ti SC+/Xtreme IV
Processor: Ryzen 5 1600@4GHz/1.4375V
Mainboard: ASRock X370 Killer SLI
Memory: TridentZ 2933/C14 16 GB
Soundcard: X-Fi Titanium + Z906
PSU: Tt. Toughpower XT 875 W
Default 04-21-2017, 21:04 | posts: 3,345 | Location: Finland

I made an observation which (I hope) could be helpful to CPU oc'ing.

I monitored CPU voltage under load (Cinebench) and if LLC was at Auto the voltage would drop quite a bit.
By setting LLC to 1 which is the strictest level for my mobo, the voltage stayed at the set value during full load.

I tried running 4 GHz with LLC at Auto and Cinebench crashed after a while with the same voltage.

Also note Ryzen Master doesn't give you the option to set LLC so you need to do it in BIOS.

Sorry if this was obvious
(LLC is not a new thing By any means but don't think I've seen so notable voltage drops with Auto/default settings before with Intel CPUs)

Last edited by AsiJu; 04-21-2017 at 21:28.
   
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  (#909)
TheWirelessGod
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Videocard: XFX RX480 8GB GTR
Processor: -waiting R7 1700x
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-Pro
Memory: TridentZ 16gb 3200MHzDDR4
Soundcard:
PSU: 1000watt
Default 04-22-2017, 03:15 | posts: 1

@Clouseau Which bios version would you say is best right now for the Asus Prime x370-pro ? I ordered mine the other day and just prepping for when I build it. Thank you
   
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Clouseau
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Videocard: MSI RX 480 Gamming
Processor: Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: ASUS Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill Trident (2x8) 3200
Soundcard:
PSU: Seasonic SSR-1200PD
Default 04-22-2017, 04:06 | posts: 1,592

Best bios version for me hands down is 0604. If that version does not work for you then 0515. Would not venture prior to 0515. Let us know how it goes. Most of all, enjoy!

EDIT: I just bit the bullet and ordered a different set of Tridentzs; F4-3600C16D-16GTZ. Read several individuals having success running them at 3200 14-14-14-34 @ 1.35v on the Prime. Realize my results may be different and still may not be able to hit 3200 stable but just have that itch needing to try. When the May bios comes out hopefully will be able to run them at 3600, otherwise will try to throw in the 3200 pair and see what goes.

Vega...where are you?

Last edited by Clouseau; 04-22-2017 at 04:13.
   
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Gigabytes
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Videocard: RX480 (Vega dreaming)
Processor: AMD Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill DDR4 2x8GB
Soundcard:
PSU: eVGA Supernova 650
Default 04-22-2017, 20:59 | posts: 26

Have managed to get 40.25X with 3200 Hynix stable enough to run Corona Benchmark. I can get cinebench to run at 41X but not Corona, same with 40.50X, Cinebench will run but not Corona. It's safe to say if Corona completes your system is decently stable but not rock solid.



https://corona-renderer.com/benchmar...&submit=Search




Last edited by Gigabytes; 04-22-2017 at 21:18.
   
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Webhiker
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Videocard: EVGA GTX 1080 SC Gaming
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-PRO
Memory: 32 GB TridentZ DDR4-3200
Soundcard: Realtek® ALC1220
PSU: Zahlman ZM-1000HP
Default 04-22-2017, 23:57 | posts: 204 | Location: Aarhus, Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Best bios version for me hands down is 0604. If that version does not work for you then 0515. Would not venture prior to 0515. Let us know how it goes. Most of all, enjoy!

EDIT: I just bit the bullet and ordered a different set of Tridentzs; F4-3600C16D-16GTZ. Read several individuals having success running them at 3200 14-14-14-34 @ 1.35v on the Prime. Realize my results may be different and still may not be able to hit 3200 stable but just have that itch needing to try. When the May bios comes out hopefully will be able to run them at 3600, otherwise will try to throw in the 3200 pair and see what goes.

Vega...where are you?
I don't understand the problems with double sided RAM on Ryzen.
As far as I'm aware double sided RAM draws more power from the MB, but at the same time doesn't double sided ram do bank-interleaving ? So shouldn't it perform really good in bandwidth sensitive situations ?

Does anyone know if it's harder to get double sided ram working for BIOS writers or if there is extra steps involved compared to single sided ram ?

EDIT
I paid a small fortune for my RAM and I'm not prepared to exchange them just yet.
   
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  (#913)
Gigabytes
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Videocard: RX480 (Vega dreaming)
Processor: AMD Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill DDR4 2x8GB
Soundcard:
PSU: eVGA Supernova 650
Default 04-23-2017, 01:18 | posts: 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webhiker View Post
I don't understand the problems with double sided RAM on Ryzen.
As far as I'm aware double sided RAM draws more power from the MB, but at the same time doesn't double sided ram do bank-interleaving ? So shouldn't it perform really good in bandwidth sensitive situations ?

Does anyone know if it's harder to get double sided ram working for BIOS writers or if there is extra steps involved compared to single sided ram ?

EDIT
I paid a small fortune for my RAM and I'm not prepared to exchange them just yet.
As you can see in my other posts I am using SK Hynix double sided ram and managed to get it running at full speed 3200 with better then DOCP timings and a decently stable 40.25X overclock.

While my memory was able to do 2933 right away, 3200 was elusive for a while. Then one day I was able to post into 3200 then couldn't. Played with voltage but could not get into windows. Then I put on 0604 and messed around for hours with voltage and ODT finally posting into windows. Thought it was ok but took a disaster crash that sent me back to 0515.

Since going back to 0515 the 3200 memory clock is rock solid and has been for nearly 2 weeks. Getting lots of stress with the benching and cpu overclocking I been working on. Not sure whats going on, maybe I'm just lucky.

Just out of curiosity is your memory a quad channel kit?

Last edited by Gigabytes; 04-23-2017 at 01:23.
   
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  (#914)
Clouseau
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Videocard: MSI RX 480 Gamming
Processor: Ryzen 1700X
Mainboard: ASUS Prime X370-Pro
Memory: GSkill Trident (2x8) 3200
Soundcard:
PSU: Seasonic SSR-1200PD
Default 04-23-2017, 08:04 | posts: 1,592

Anyone else getting this error in event viewer with the new Ryzen Balanced power option enabled:

Performance power management features on processor 15 in group 0 are disabled due to a firmware problem. Check with the computer manufacturer for updated firmware.

Every time the rig boots, 16 separate listings of the same error. Thankfully the cpu does not have anymore cores or threads. It's absolutely nuts.

Last edited by Clouseau; 04-23-2017 at 08:06.
   
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AsiJu
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Videocard: EVGA 980Ti SC+/Xtreme IV
Processor: Ryzen 5 1600@4GHz/1.4375V
Mainboard: ASRock X370 Killer SLI
Memory: TridentZ 2933/C14 16 GB
Soundcard: X-Fi Titanium + Z906
PSU: Tt. Toughpower XT 875 W
Default 04-23-2017, 08:53 | posts: 3,345 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Anyone else getting this error in event viewer with the new Ryzen Balanced power option enabled:

Performance power management features on processor 15 in group 0 are disabled due to a firmware problem. Check with the computer manufacturer for updated firmware.

Every time the rig boots, 16 separate listings of the same error. Thankfully the cpu does not have anymore cores or threads. It's absolutely nuts.
Yeah the same for me, except times 12

I already noticed when monitoring that even with the new Ryzen power plan there's no performance management, CPU stays at max clock and voltage when manually overclocked.

Idk if the powerplan works with default (non OC) settings. Could be that manual oc'ing overrides all power management at the time.

Hope they add/fix it soon, allowing CPU to downclock and downvolt in desktop and light use is beneficial.

Last edited by AsiJu; 04-23-2017 at 08:58.
   
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Webhiker
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Videocard: EVGA GTX 1080 SC Gaming
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 1800X
Mainboard: Asus Prime X370-PRO
Memory: 32 GB TridentZ DDR4-3200
Soundcard: Realtek® ALC1220
PSU: Zahlman ZM-1000HP
Default 04-23-2017, 11:27 | posts: 204 | Location: Aarhus, Denmark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabytes View Post
As you can see in my other posts I am using SK Hynix double sided ram and managed to get it running at full speed 3200 with better then DOCP timings and a decently stable 40.25X overclock.

While my memory was able to do 2933 right away, 3200 was elusive for a while. Then one day I was able to post into 3200 then couldn't. Played with voltage but could not get into windows. Then I put on 0604 and messed around for hours with voltage and ODT finally posting into windows. Thought it was ok but took a disaster crash that sent me back to 0515.

Since going back to 0515 the 3200 memory clock is rock solid and has been for nearly 2 weeks. Getting lots of stress with the benching and cpu overclocking I been working on. Not sure whats going on, maybe I'm just lucky.

Just out of curiosity is your memory a quad channel kit?
It's dual channel 2 x 16 GB

Last edited by Webhiker; 04-23-2017 at 11:30.
   
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Elder III
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Videocard: GTX 1080 Ti FE
Processor: R7 1700X 4.0 @ 1.35
Mainboard: Biostar X370GT7
Memory: GSkill RGB 16GB 2933 CL14
Soundcard: Corsair VOID RGB
PSU: CM Silent Pro 1000W
Default 04-23-2017, 22:09 | posts: 3,188 | Location: Upstate New York

Well, Biostar finally released a new Bios update (over 5 weeks since the last one). This is listed as the new AGEA Bios with whatever that entails. I updated to it two nights ago and long story short, it ruined my motherboard. Below is an excerpt from what I wrote in my Biostar RMA application:

"1. Very unstable, requires clearing the CMOS twice when changing RAM settings in order to reboot on 3 occasions.
2. Required resetting the PC twice in order to have my screen display anything after the Bios flash screen (just a black, backlight screen where the Welcome to Windows screen should be) on 4 different occasions.
3. If I try to change any of the new CPU overclocking settings in the Bios they do change the CPU frequency but the Bios no longer detects my Biostar M200 M.2 SSD that came with the motherboard and has Windows on it.... so I can't boot into Windows. --- If I change it back to default settings the Bios sees the M200 SSD again and I can boot into Windows.
4. The screen flashes black from time to time and has a constant flickering stars blinking in and out.... it looks like it does if you hit your head hard enough to see stars, the flickering is faint and shows up the most on dark areas of the screen. I tested with 2 different screens and had the same effect and both screens are fine when connected to a different PC.
5. Worst of all, I switched to the backup BIOS (switch on motherboard), and it still does the same thing. So much for a backup factory settings Bios if the bad one destroyed the hardware... If this fried my GPU I am going to be very ticked off.
"

Prior to this update my only real complaint was that the Bios options were very lacking/limited. It was very stable, ran 4.0 Ghz at just 1.35v, hit 2933 CL14 on the Memory once I bought something off their QVL list. If the backup Bios switch had allowed me to just revert back to where I was 3 days ago I would have just kept it and been content as it was. :p

Next up is an AsRock X370 Fatality Professional Gaming that's supposed to arrive Tuesday. It was either that or the Taichi as far as having the best reviews (by allot) and features I wanted. I'd prefer the cheaper Taichi, but it's out of stock everywhere right now. The Fatality is only going to be about $30 more then the original Biostar and has allot better Bios, QVL list that's 5-6x longer (at least) and ought to OC at least as well if not better.
   
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  (#918)
Ryu5uzaku
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Videocard: 980ti gaming 1490/7700
Processor: 1800x 4.05ghz 1.35 volt
Mainboard: Asus CH VI x370
Memory: 16GB 3ghz ddr4
Soundcard: Asus strix pro
PSU: 850W SF platinum
Default 04-24-2017, 08:39 | posts: 6,405 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiJu View Post
Yeah the same for me, except times 12

I already noticed when monitoring that even with the new Ryzen power plan there's no performance management, CPU stays at max clock and voltage when manually overclocked.

Idk if the powerplan works with default (non OC) settings. Could be that manual oc'ing overrides all power management at the time.

Hope they add/fix it soon, allowing CPU to downclock and downvolt in desktop and light use is beneficial.
You could oc with p-states I guess? Well at least on hero 6 it is possible. I am running my cpu @ 4ghz non stop lol.
   
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  (#919)
AsiJu
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Videocard: EVGA 980Ti SC+/Xtreme IV
Processor: Ryzen 5 1600@4GHz/1.4375V
Mainboard: ASRock X370 Killer SLI
Memory: TridentZ 2933/C14 16 GB
Soundcard: X-Fi Titanium + Z906
PSU: Tt. Toughpower XT 875 W
Default 04-24-2017, 09:55 | posts: 3,345 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu5uzaku View Post
You could oc with p-states I guess? Well at least on hero 6 it is possible. I am running my cpu @ 4ghz non stop lol.
I'll have to look into p-states more, just browsed through the settings quickly but guess it should be possible.

Desktop temperatures are fine though, around 30 C idle. Maybe future BIOS updates and power plans allow for downvolting/downclocking with manual overclocking.
   
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Ryu5uzaku
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Videocard: 980ti gaming 1490/7700
Processor: 1800x 4.05ghz 1.35 volt
Mainboard: Asus CH VI x370
Memory: 16GB 3ghz ddr4
Soundcard: Asus strix pro
PSU: 850W SF platinum
Default 04-24-2017, 10:44 | posts: 6,405 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiJu View Post
I'll have to look into p-states more, just browsed through the settings quickly but guess it should be possible.

Desktop temperatures are fine though, around 30 C idle. Maybe future BIOS updates and power plans allow for downvolting/downclocking with manual overclocking.
yeah same I got around 34 celsius on desktop on my 8 core. But future will tell us.

So how have you liked the amd side?
   
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w0nderz
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Videocard: MSI GTX 980
Processor: AMD R7 1700
Mainboard: ASUS X370-Pro
Memory: G.Skill 3200 16GB
Soundcard: RTK ALC1220
PSU: Corsair AX860
Default 04-24-2017, 11:23 | posts: 131

You can have already your CPU to downvolt on low CPU usage (won't downclock tho), with manual OC and not even needing to customize pstates.
   
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AsiJu
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Videocard: EVGA 980Ti SC+/Xtreme IV
Processor: Ryzen 5 1600@4GHz/1.4375V
Mainboard: ASRock X370 Killer SLI
Memory: TridentZ 2933/C14 16 GB
Soundcard: X-Fi Titanium + Z906
PSU: Tt. Toughpower XT 875 W
Default 04-24-2017, 11:46 | posts: 3,345 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu5uzaku View Post
yeah same I got around 34 celsius on desktop on my 8 core. But future will tell us.

So how have you liked the amd side?
Very nice!

Ironically enough I got a performance boost in ROTTR (which looking at benchmarks took the biggest hit vs. Intel).
Now I can keep maxed out settings except MSAA to maintain 1080p@75 fps in Geothermal Valley. Needed to drop a few settings down a notch with i5.

Haven't really done extensive testing yet but eg. ROTTR, DXMD run just as good or better than before.
ROTTR Geothermal Valley btw has between 50 - 70 % usage on all cores on DX12 so no wonder an i5 didn't quite cut it anymore.

Desktop feels snappier and NV CPL became a lot more responsive too, lols! Also program installation times seem to be a lot shorter more often than not.

No issues either, upgrade went surprisingly smoothly actually. Expected to run into kinks here and there but nothing as of yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by w0nderz View Post
You can have already your CPU to downvolt on low CPU usage (won't downclock tho), with manual OC and not even needing to customize pstates.
Oh? How can you do that?

Killer SLI BIOS has only a fixed setting for CPU voltage and after setting it manually it sticks to that (checked with HWInfo).
   
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  (#923)
__hollywood|meo
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Videocard: MSI 7970 1.2ghz + EK
Processor: x6 1090T 3.6ghz + dtek
Mainboard: Gigabyte 970A-UD3P
Memory: 2x8gb Ballistix 1866
Soundcard: Creative SBZ/Klipsch 2.1s
PSU: PCP&C Silencer 750w Quad
Default 04-24-2017, 13:30 | posts: 2,711 | Location: the hollywod multiplex

damn elder, sorry to hear about your issues. youll be happier with that fatal1ty, im sure...looks quite nice
   
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  (#924)
w0nderz
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Videocard: MSI GTX 980
Processor: AMD R7 1700
Mainboard: ASUS X370-Pro
Memory: G.Skill 3200 16GB
Soundcard: RTK ALC1220
PSU: Corsair AX860
Default 04-24-2017, 13:39 | posts: 131

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiJu View Post
Oh? How can you do that?

Killer SLI BIOS has only a fixed setting for CPU voltage and after setting it manually it sticks to that (checked with HWInfo).
#869

If you can't set an offset voltage, nevermind. But that's weird that your mobo doesn't have the option to.

Last edited by w0nderz; 04-24-2017 at 15:19.
   
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  (#925)
AsiJu
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Videocard: EVGA 980Ti SC+/Xtreme IV
Processor: Ryzen 5 1600@4GHz/1.4375V
Mainboard: ASRock X370 Killer SLI
Memory: TridentZ 2933/C14 16 GB
Soundcard: X-Fi Titanium + Z906
PSU: Tt. Toughpower XT 875 W
Default 04-24-2017, 16:34 | posts: 3,345 | Location: Finland

Quote:
Originally Posted by w0nderz View Post
#869

If you can't set an offset voltage, nevermind. But that's weird that your mobo doesn't have the option to.
You can only set cpu voltage to auto or manual (fixed).

There is a Vcore setting too that has offset option but the description says it controls input voltage.
Maybe future BIOS versions will add offset or adaptive mode for cpu voltage.
   
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