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  (#26)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 00:03 | posts: 3,107

yes you will get tearing when dropping under 60, because vsync will turn itself OFF in order to maintain minimal input lag.

there's proly some threshold like maybe 58fps
   
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  (#27)
Y1ROK
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Default 03-22-2012, 00:04 | posts: 91 | Location: Russia

D3D Overrider + FPS Limiter works great, so i dont need any other vsync, but it would be good if we will have some new AA, not FXAA, cuz FXAA is blurry crap.
   
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  (#28)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 00:06 | posts: 3,107

then use smaa... google etc

and yeah we're getting TXAA

wonder if it will be fully functional
   
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  (#29)
gx-x
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Default 03-22-2012, 00:59 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y1ROK View Post
D3D Overrider + FPS Limiter works great, so i dont need any other vsync, but it would be good if we will have some new AA, not FXAA, cuz FXAA is blurry crap.
That's not vertical synchronization, that's just limiting the frame frame rate, nothing prevents frames to "misfire", it's not the same "effect". For instance, I will take F.E.A.R. fr example, when lights blink on and off in some scenes, with v-sync whole picture blinks on/off, without you can get half (or third, nwm) picture being white, half being ahead or behind the "blink" and be darker.

but anyway, I'd rather have 43fps and tearing then v-sync unable to keep 45fps and cutting it down to 30fps. I'd even take 38fps with tearing then 30 with v-sync.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisiv View Post
then use smaa... google etc

and yeah we're getting TXAA

wonder if it will be fully functional
even if it were, in what resolution and in what game can gtx460 run 4xMSAA in playable framerates? (just don't say something like Quake2 or minecraft please :d ). Actually, it's a rhetorical question. I needed gtx460 1gb oced to 830mhz to run Kingdoms of amalur in constant 60fps...it dipped to 45 with v-sync on when left on 770mhz...and that game doesn't even have 4xMSAA only some form of postprocess

Last edited by gx-x; 03-22-2012 at 01:07.
   
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  (#30)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 02:03 | posts: 3,107

Master guru, you need to know your limits!
my 460 came with 811MHz clock, 6Gbps RAM, so it does 960/2300 no problemo :b

btw you are wrong: D3D Overrider + FPS Limiter is still Vsync-ed = NO TEARING
   
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  (#31)
gx-x
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Default 03-22-2012, 02:32 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisiv View Post
Master guru, you need to know your limits!
my 460 came with 811MHz clock, 6Gbps RAM, so it does 960/2300 no problemo :b

btw you are wrong: D3D Overrider + FPS Limiter is still Vsync-ed = NO TEARING
yes it did. It also did cost as much as 560 version that does those clocks and is a bit faster on them too. Even on 1000mhz you will still not be able to run 4xMSAA in 1920x1080 all maxed out in any new decent looking game and keep fps above 40 (under that I find it unplayable and would just go for xbox or some crap). Try Anno 2070 for example, or crysis 2, or crysis 1, whatever. gtx570 clocked to 900mhz is barely keeping up in 40-60 range without v-sync with 4xMSAA. I test cards, I know

and I am not wrong about enabling triple buffer for DX with d3doverrider and limiting fps to 60. It's just limiting as I said. I use those sometimes and have tested it and I am right, you are mistaken. Try it yourself and you will see.
and don't patronize me please.

edit: my gainward 460 gs did 950mhz no problemo except I like my computer silent So I opted for ~38db on 850Mhz instead of 45db on 950. It meant a world of difference to me. I didn't pay thousands for a sound system just to ruin it by noise from graphics card

Last edited by gx-x; 03-22-2012 at 02:36.
   
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  (#32)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 04:12 | posts: 3,107

Dunno why you brought this up in adaptive vsync thread /sigh

Also not sure what card you _think you have bought, but compared to my 460,
your 560Ti has 48 more Cuda Cores (+14%), more refined 40nm process, crapload less VRM phases, less effective cooler, and 40 MHz smaller clock.

Ofc. it's still a faster card, but by how much

This is 460 on the same clocks as 560 Ti:

 Click to show spoiler


Last edited by Noisiv; 03-22-2012 at 04:16.
   
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  (#33)
gx-x
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Default 03-22-2012, 04:44 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

You are out of your mind man. I dont have 560Ti, I have just 560 in my rig now, clock for clock (950mhz vs 950mhz) 560 is faster than 460 by ~2% and cooler by 20% (doesn't reach 80C with reference design) and costs the same as your MSI, if not less (I payed 130euros for it). So I really don't see your point. I want quiet and effective card. I can push it to perhaps 1ghz but I don't want that, it's not quiet. I want quiet. I have replaced stock cooler in my psu for 22euro one just to make it quiet. To each his own. Speed and MHZ isn't everything. Besides, I change graphic cards like a whore, I don't really have one. Last month I had SLi 580 for test and review, barely could stand the noise...but hey...
also, those graphs mean nothing. You need the same testbed to really compare. I can link you to a review where 6850 beats gtx560ti in heaven benchmark tessellation, yea, it's that stupid....

edit: I brought it up because of the excitement you expressed about having TXAA which will "only" be as demanding as 4xMSAA which is in it's nature for instance unplayable on gtx 460 on any overclock in max detail in crysis 1/2/3 in 1080p

Last edited by gx-x; 03-22-2012 at 04:57.
   
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  (#34)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 04:58 | posts: 3,107

great....you want quiet and cool, and then you buy Gaindud GS Hot Like Hell

reviewer and tester you say
   
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  (#35)
gx-x
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Default 03-22-2012, 05:27 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

I had that for a review dude, after that I had 2xGainward 580 phantom, now I have evga 560, next week I will have gtx680...after that i might have something like radeon 7650, who knows lol Truth is, I am not very active here, and I don't update my rig description very often for that reason, and for that other reason. I really don't have (or need) my personal rig. Those things are my job anyway...

edit: i modded bios of that gainward and lowered the fan speeds and got it pretty quiet at idle It's gone now but...

Last edited by gx-x; 03-22-2012 at 05:31.
   
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  (#36)
Noisiv
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Default 03-22-2012, 05:42 | posts: 3,107

that still leaves the problem of you thinking D3D + frame limiter does not run Vsync-ed though
 Click to show spoiler


Last edited by Noisiv; 03-22-2012 at 05:44.
   
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  (#37)
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Default 03-22-2012, 13:44 | posts: 1

Wait, wait...
Well, if we will limit fps to 60 (from 200, for example), where all other 140 fps will go? So, image will be refreshing for 60/200 of a 1sec, but what will we see for 140/200 of that second? If GPU uses some adaptive framerate, it should know, how many work have to be done. Adaptive framerate will work well only with static scenes on 1sec interval. Such adaptive framerate is just another piece of ***^W marketing, i think, because it can't be physically done well (until you have a nano time-machine, of course).
NVidia should make good productive IDE for CUDA, not these gaming "improvements".
NVidia - not for HPC, NVidia - for kids =\
/Sorry, I will always say bad things about NVidia, because i remembered well their "work-around" with Optimus "improvement", not working on linux, and no 64bit support on geforce 3xxM series (so, no MatLab acceleration on notebook).
   
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  (#38)
rewt
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Default 03-22-2012, 14:32 | posts: 1,244 | Location: Americas

Remember that game Rage that had pretty bad tearing with such feature. Probably won't find myself using it. Vsync always On worked better @ 60 fps and zero tearing.

Edit- but I forgot ID Tech caps the fps @ 60 in their engines, maybe that's why I had strange tearing with smart vsync. I game higher than 60 Hz.

Last edited by rewt; 03-22-2012 at 15:05.
   
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  (#39)
METAVISOR
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Default 03-22-2012, 17:04 | posts: 20 | Location: Colombia

The wait is over,finally looks like itīs driver related function.
Nvidia GeForce WHQL 301.10 Released; Adaptive Vsync and FXAA available to everyone.
letīs prove and post what are you thinking about this.
   
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  (#40)
wasteomind
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Default 03-22-2012, 20:49 | posts: 348 | Location: HOMELESS

Not so sure it is driver based. Just tried testing it in crysis 1 and it didn't seem to be working at all. Looking straight up into the sky or down at the ground I get 90+ fps in some areas. With normal vsync on I get 60fps capped as it should be in the same spots.
   
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  (#41)
Darren Hodgson
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Default 03-22-2012, 23:03 | posts: 12,262 | Location: England

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasteomind View Post
Not so sure it is driver based. Just tried testing it in crysis 1 and it didn't seem to be working at all. Looking straight up into the sky or down at the ground I get 90+ fps in some areas. With normal vsync on I get 60fps capped as it should be in the same spots.
It may not work with that game or your GTX 280. I tried the Adaptive (Half Refresh) on Doctor Who: The Adventure Games and the framerate was capped at 30 fps (half of my display's 60 Hz/60 fps). Seems to be working, or maybe the cap is. Didn't see any tearing though but that gaming isn't that demanding anyway.
   
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  (#42)
rewt
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Default 03-23-2012, 22:26 | posts: 1,244 | Location: Americas

I don't think Vsync has any business capping the framerate at 30fps. That is what fps limiter is for. Adaptive Vsync @ half refresh rate should just keep Vsync enabled until fps falls below half of the refresh rate.
   
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Redemption80
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Default 03-23-2012, 22:29 | posts: 15,123 | Location: Glasgow

That is what the normal one is for, the half refresh one is likely meant for people with 120hz screens, or maybe even those on a 60hz screen who have alot of framerate drops below 30fps.
   
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rewt
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Default 03-23-2012, 22:38 | posts: 1,244 | Location: Americas

Will be interesting to see if it works properly with double buffering, because we've all seen the problem that brings..

Slightly on the topic of Vsync is the max pre-rendered frames setting which Nvidia seemed to have tweaked in 300.xx. I wonder if they fixed it for DX11 and/or OpenGL. I noticed it no longer applies to SLI.
   
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Default 03-23-2012, 23:09 | posts: 162

You're complicating things. This is my take; when you enable adaptive vsync, the driver monitors the frame rate. When it's more than the target rate it enables vsync, when it's lower, it disables it. This graph tells a lot:



Also, nvidia says it's coming to older cards.

Last edited by eddman; 03-23-2012 at 23:12.
   
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  (#46)
rewt
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Default 03-23-2012, 23:25 | posts: 1,244 | Location: Americas

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddman View Post
You're complicating things.
And you're oversimplifying it. Your screenshot only described one of the many new options related to Adaptive Vsync.
   
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  (#47)
Noisiv
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Default 03-23-2012, 23:54 | posts: 3,107

Quote:
Originally Posted by rewt View Post
And you're oversimplifying it. Your screenshot only described one of the many new options related to Adaptive Vsync.
only thing that comes to mind is possible stuttering/lag when vsync-ing with low FPS, so yeah id say it's simple enough concept

and people reporting tearing with adaptive... What's wrong with ya, ofc its gonna tear if you drop bellow 60 - Thats the whole idea
   
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  (#48)
gx-x
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Default 03-24-2012, 01:53 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

Quote:
Originally Posted by rewt View Post
I don't think Vsync has any business capping the framerate at 30fps. That is what fps limiter is for. Adaptive Vsync @ half refresh rate should just keep Vsync enabled until fps falls below half of the refresh rate.
v-sync doesn't cap framerate, it syncs it to refresh rate of monitor (output) It will sync it to 60fps if your monitor is 60Hz (refresh rate) it will sync it to 120fps (if your monitor/TV is 120Hz). It will divide those possible Hz in steps of 15fps to keep in sync as best as possible. If you can't match 60fps with GPU it will limit to next possible value, 45. Trippe buffering may make things a bit better by forcing cap closer to 60 instead of 45 but...good luck with that.

I am sick of people with d3doverrider + fps limiter comparing those to actual V-sync function. They have nothing in common.
   
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  (#49)
Redemption80
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Default 03-24-2012, 01:55 | posts: 15,123 | Location: Glasgow

D3DOverrider is Vsync though.
   
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gx-x
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Default 03-24-2012, 01:59 | posts: 354 | Location: Serbia

no it's not. Tested and failed. Sorry. I don't want to argue. Enabling triple buffer in D3D is not V-sync

edit: sure, go ahead, but you will still have tearing. With regular v-sync you won't. Easily demonstrated in anything that goes above 60fps (without using fps limiter).

Last edited by gx-x; 03-24-2012 at 02:02.
   
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